Fight, Flight, Freeze… or Fib?

12 Comments: Fight, Flight, Freeze… or Fib?

1. Hi,
   as fibbing can be observed when shampe comes into play, it appears to be primarly a protection mechanism to maintain self-worth. Therefore it can be considered as a specific approach within the concept described as masking. As I was challenged by that numerous times , not knowing what was going on, I was keen enough to openly discuss particular events. My partner was in complete denial , pretending not to know or understand. Their reality is different. Reality is what regulates the emotions. The concerned person uses masking as a way to protect the self and of course learned that it was rewarding at least on short term. However on the long run the concerned person did not realize that wearing these masks changed the self in such a way, that the self-concept was completely destroyed and reality was replaced by delusion, which is perfectly enabled by a faulty working memory. I wonder how this spiral can be stopped. As long as delusion prevails, even the best possible treatment will not stop this spiral. Fibbing as an aspect of ADHD might appear harmless, in fact it is not.

2. I remember reading a couple of years ago the idea of there being Fight, Flight, Freeze and FAWN reactions. (“Fawning” being a behavior to try to appease an authority figure or an aggressive person.)

   Might the Fib reaction be considered a particular way of Fawning?

   ———-

   I wonder also whether there might be a correlation between these responses and John Gottman’s “Four Horsemen” of relationships: Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness and Stonewalling.
   (Criticism = Fight, Contempt = Flight, Stonewalling = Freeze, Defensiveness = Fawn)

3. So true. In thinking about it, I realized how often I do “fib” even though I think of myself as very honest. It’s always in the situations you described: high pressure, intense anxiety and shake over not meeting a deadline because of avoiding the work until the pressure stress helps me focus – and I don’t have enough time. I recently fibbed to buy time to finish an assignment rather than deal with the damage and disappointment of my leader. It’s not going to end well, which made me look to understand what the heck I was doing – it’s unusual to go beyond white lies but still consistent enough. It probably means I’m avoiding the conflict and letdown; after all I realized at least a day ahead that I wasn’t going to make it.

   I wish there were a good way to explain the behavior to a supervisor and get help improving rather than waiting to be embarrassed or fired.

4. I grew up lying all the time as a teenager. Who knows what my reasons were, maybe I was never noticed and wanted some attention as the second child. When I turned 18, I made it a point not to lie, hard but I did it. I married a man that lied during our 10 years today, 9 years married, couldn’t be honest about many things. Our daughter, started lying. she’s now 14 and recently she said to me, it’s so easy to lie then to be honest. I have to say, it’s hard dealing with anyone that lies, figuring out why, I guess that’s another story. I’d rather my kid, be honest, as I trust her and many times I’ve believed her to find out that it was a lie. Oh, well

5. Ya, this is like a “duh” moment. I have witnessed this for years. In dealing with it, I usually go with ignore the lie. Parents get so wrapped up into “he lied to me”. They take it personally and never look into the “why” of the lie. You know he lied – ya, that happens. Deal with the “why” of the lie, the problem that caused the lie. I do like #5 as that is important. But deal with the problem.

   1. Hey there, I agree the best way is to deal with the problem. The best way that we an deal with the problem in my opinion is by having the person fibbing in a much less defensive “head space”- when they feel under attack, that is when the “fight, flight or freeze” response kicks in, and the attentional network, the network that gives us access to information that we know, is shut down. This shut down is to fuel the Fight, Flight or Freeze response, leaving only the Fib (as now we have language to also protect us). If we can be curious and derive information, and non-judgmental (the premise of mindfulness practice) and give time to access or process or support working memory, we can have a much more effective communication. Thanks for your input.

      1. Thank you very much, dear monica 1 ! I believe, you brought something into the discussion that’s definetly worth considering/mentioning!

         Specifically, your mentioning the part about the individual’s noteable “melt – downs” due to distressing exterior conditions!

         Ugh. Hmpf. “Great”! Now guess what: *drumroll please*

         I ACTUALLY (IN REAL LIFE!) can’t remember where to ” go” from here anymore,can’t re – capture my own ff – ing POINT so that – hold on, need to check the alarm clock! – as a result roughly 2 hours of “working hours” ~ were effectively wasted pointless… *gnarf*

         So sorry, guys, gotta go! See ya!:-)

6. Can someone put these suggestions into layman’s terms? I have no idea what using metacognitive or Socratic questioning techniques means – or any of the other ‘helpful suggestions ‘.

   1. HI Mimi bee, Socratic questioning is a type of question that someone asks someone else to find out more about “how or what” someone is thinking. It is used to explore complex ideas or to get to the truth. it is the type of question that the Philosopher Socrates would ask his students. He would teach often by asking complex, questions. A question like “what time is it?” is not a Socratic question. “What made you think that”- uncovering an assumption, or “what is the impact of you staying up too late at night?” – analyzing a concept- these are Socratic questions. Whenever you see term “metacognitive, it is simply talking about “thinking about thinking”- a good example of this type of question would be ” “Why did I stay up so late?, -now I feel awful and tired”. When we wrote the article, we didn’t have a lot of room for explaining these concepts. They are helpful and very easy when you know what they are. I hope this answers your excellent question.

   2. I agree with mimi bee above. Would love these suggestions translated to “layman’s” terms.

      This article is one I’ve been looking for for a long time. My ex-husband had undiagnosed ADHD and lied more often than he told the truth. Several times, lied about having jobs that he continued to pretend to go to every day while I arranged expensive child care for our kids. I do understand he must have felt it was self-preservation for his fragile ego, and of course he had no consideration of later consequences, but his lies were huge and elaborate. He’s not my problem anymore, but all 4 of my children have been diagnosed with ADHD, and my 21, 19 and 17 year olds lie all the time. I am extremely merciful as a mother, and so any fear they have of retribution or consequences from me is unfounded. (However, I understand their brains work differently.)

      My 21 year old spent a semester away at college, repeatedly asking me for money for books, fixing a computer, car repairs, paying parking tickets and rent. He pretended to have 2 jobs while at school (only found out that they were fictional when I was preparing taxes). He NEVER paid rent, and was likely using the money to buy beer or weed. I always asked for receipts, and more lies were created to cover the lack of receipts. Because I co-signed for his apartment off-campus, I was liable for 6 months rent. I have since pulled him out of school, and he lives at home and attends community college for the time being. But I’m not even sure that’s happening. Since home, he has gotten and been fired from 2 jobs and then lied about having a third one. I could kick him out but I have no idea how he would survive with no money, which scares me. Oh, and he took himself off ADHD and depression medicines a few years ago and refuses to go back on them. LONG story short, I really want to understand and curb my childrens’ lies. I actually never knew lying was a symptom of ADHD, so thank you for the article!

      1. Oh I just wanted to clarify that “fibbing” isn’t another trait for ADHD. I believe it can happen to anyone with or without ADHD….our point is that we have noticed it in people with ADHD. This is because they may find themselves in that defensive situation more often than those with out ADHD. This may be due to the lagging executive function skills (in child or adulthood). If we can understand the lagging skills, we can fill the gaps so the need for defence is reduced. Barbara and I just happened to notice it because that is who are clients predominantly are. There will be many, many people with ADHD that don’t use this as a fear response. Though I believe many will “fib to themselves” re time management etc.

      2. Hi, I love Dr Ross Greene’s work where he describes “Kids do when if they can” and he talks about – Lagging skills and Unsolved problems. (He has loads on You tube). this is genius as no one wants to wake up in the day and think, “great I am going to lie to my Mom” – I believe that they will mostly do it is to as a preserve measure, to protect something. With ADHD on board, the delay in Executive function skills(the lagging skills that Dr Greene describes) causes problems, which are hard to solve. Coaching communication can be a wonderful approach to this. I think of coaching a LOT like mindfulness, objective and non-judgmental. We may be running a short course for adults with ADHD adolescents soon, this will be one of the topics we discuss. cheers Monica