wow....reading your story is a lot like telling my own.....I really sympathize with you. My 6 year old son has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and ODD, we have tried so many different medications but none of them seem to work for long. He has been on Adderall, clonodine, ritalin, metadate, and now abilify. The first four have worked but only for a brief moment, it seems as if he is building a tolerance for everything we give him....It has been so bad that I have had to take him to the emergency room in fear that he may hurt himself or others. I have gone through the same tantrums that you have had to deal with. He has even had the moments of seeming to be possessed, he has gone on for hours at a time screaming flipping off of furniture, throwing objects across my home, spitting, bitting, you name it. One day he actually jumped off of my t.v. and kicked me right in my stomach......When I tell this to some doctors they look at me like I'm crazy or making it up even. I am so scared that he is going to hurt someone or even worse himself, it is a horrible feeling to feel out of control and helpless in your own home, I want to thank you for sharing your story, It makes me feel a little better knowing that I am not the only person going through this with my child.....I wish you and your family the best of luck and hope your little girl gets better.....

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What did they do in the ER? Did they sedate him? Moreover how on earth did you get him in the car? Cindy, when she's like this is like a possessed Tazmanian Devil. That's what I call it. Do you have any other children? My middle child, the 8yr old daughter, the poor thing, her bedroom is next to Cindy's and saw and heard everything last night and was crying and shaking. She wanted to let me in from the garage last night, but was terrified as to what Cindy might do. My 10 yr old has a bedroom on a different floor and heard everything. She couldn't sleep well all night b/c of it.

The thing is, I'm scared of an ODD diagnosis. I think I could handle bipolar. Also, I thought with ODD, don't the children seek out to hurt small animals? I am so sorry that you, too have to go through this. I feel your heart break and know what it's like to have a home turned upside down because of this. I cried for 30 minutes after Cindy FINALLY went to bed.

Daddy is trying to just go with it now, a day later, but that's not going to help her. As a step, we put a key outside of the house should Cindy decide to lock me out again.

In the light of a new day, I have decided to record her rages digitally so I can give them to her doctor. Even if Cindy goes and hides, her screaming and defiance will still be recorded.

Something is torturing her and I so much want to stop it. If she needs to be hospitalized then we need to do it. I wouldn't look at you crazy about the tv thing. Cindy busted the shield on our rear projection TV by launching a box at it because I didn't have time to curl her hair. This was maybe 2 years ago.

How long have you been seeking treatment? Does your son display any symptoms at school? Cindy's an angel at school. The school does have her in an anger mangement group but she doesn't remember any of what they talk about. So, what's the point? If your son isn't displaying symptoms @ school, does he have an IEP or a 504? Our school. Is just being on the look out. The shrink asked me about an IEP. Cindy's reading and performing Math at. 1st grade level and has been since mid Fall so she didn't qualify for an IEP or 504.

Tonight, we reviewed her lines for her play and she went to bed. She was sound asleep in 5 minutes. I checked on her and she was on her back with her mouth half open sleeping like a precious baby. She's so loving with her hugs and kisses but yet these rages are mind boggling and make it so very hard. We're trying to figure it out. The shrink is on vacation. If the ER is an option, I will take her there, kicking and screaming. But I'm sure there is a doc covering while our shrink is out.

But yes, you are not alone, and apparently, neither am I.

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I am in a similar situation with my 8 yr old daughter. The part that kills me is she is an ANGEL at school. No problems at all and I know her teacher very well. At home she is a maniac. We have tried a couple meds and the rebound in the evenings made her worse than when she was on nothing. She is rude, abusive and spoiling for a fight at most times. Yet she is not like this outside of our home with others. This behavior is reserved for myself and her stepdad. She has tried to blame her behavior on the fact that her Dad & I are divorced and he lives in another state (his choice) . She is in counseling and I am just not sure what is going on with her. Good luck this is a nighmare I know all too well.

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Well last year Devin went to daycare for half of a day and went to preschool the other half and back to daycare afterwards. While at daycare he would have his tantrums but at preschool he was pretty an angel and he did have an IEP. The school swore I was crazy because they did not see any of what I was telling them about so at the end of the year for his yearly IEP review they declassified him not wanting to label him as emotionally disturbed or behavioral. I tried to explain to them that once he has to sit and be still and follow a routine he is going to have issues but they did not listen. Now it took all school year to have him reclassified for the following school year. And yes he has acted out in school this year a lot. He has jumped off desks thrown chairs, spit, kicked, hit teachers. Once he actually ran out of the school and almost a mile up the road, the school had to call 911 because they weren't sure what direction he ran, I have even had to give written permission for one of the teachers to physically restrain him if needed.

He is such a bright boy and so lovable but in the same he is very manipulative, disrespectful, resentful it's horrible and saddening to see him in his rages. He does have a 8 year old brother and a 2 year old sister. His brother is the complete opposite of him, very timid and reserved and he is so abusive to Joe. Devin has broken many a things, his birthday was in April and one day he was having one of his episodes and I had warned him that he would not have a party if he could not get himself together and it just made things worse and him not having a party seems like it hasn't even affected him....what do we do when all other options fail? I have threatened no Santa no parties no snack I have taken away toys and it just doesn't seem to work.....

I have recorded as well when we had a FPS (family preservation services) worker coming to see us and her response was that I did a great job staying calm but I should have had more physical contact with him......this day Devin was screamin, jumping off of my dining room table, throwing things across the room, he had spit right in my face.....she said I should have taken him and hugged him and turned it into a game....her belief is change the parent change the child...but what if it's the childs behavior that is causing the parent to respond negatively? Where is the support for us, because let me tell you when he spit in my face it took every ounce of self control that I had to walk in the other direction. That same day he was trying to come out of the bathroom exposed and she asked me why I didnt just ignore it......I simply told her that I have a 2 year old daughter and I will be damned if he thinks he can walk around my house in front of her and myself with no clothes on.....what kind of example would I be setting for my other children? It is my job to protect all of my children even from each other if needed and I will not expose them to anything that would cause them harm.

He has told me that there were bugs in his ears and they won't come out, that his brain told him to do things I just don't know what to do. For the fact that ODD causes children to hurt animals I'm not to sure about that. I do know that my Devin has shown harm to animals but can be very loving to them as well. There is something going on in his body that we just can't figure out....and I wish he could explain to us so we can help him better. Doctors ask what his triggers are and I have to explain to them that there are none, it's like a light switch one minute he is fine and the next he is losing it. He does what he wants when he wants, we have tried the reward system which backfired in our faces, one day he told me that he was good all day so I have to give him a dollar and that stopped immediately. His step father and I never believed in that system any way because we were basically rewarding him for things that he was already expected to do such as pick up behind himself....

It's hard for everyone in the family and I have cried many times because I have become so stressed and out of control. We just started him on Abilify yesterday in the mornings and clonodine at night to help him sleep so now we are taking notes to see how this medication effects him.....It is very hard because he seems to build a tolerance to medications very fast which is concerning to me being that he is so young.

It feels good to be able to talk to someone that really knows what your going through. Keep me posted on her progress and if you need to talk we can do that too......

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My two sons father is not involved either as a matter of fact Devin has never met his father, I have shown him pictures, and he has had a few phone conversations with him but we all know thats not enough, There father is not involved and that is his choice as well. He lives in NC and Devin always tells me he misses him and he wants to live with him and tells My Fiance that he is not his dad and I know he resents him for being here and he has blamed me for his dad not being around. There was a lot of abuse in the relationship so I'm kind of glad he doesn't come around for my sake but it breaks my heart to see how much it effects my boys.....Once Devin starts the blame game I hold him real close and tell him that his father knows where we live has my e-mail address and phone number and he chooses not to use them. I also tell him that everyone has a choice in whatever they do wether it is right or wrong and he has made the wrong choice.....I also tell him that it has nothing to do with him and he didnt do anything wrong and that his father does love him but he chooses not to be here. When he asks why we're not together anymore I tell him that we both did not get along anymore and we decided it would be best if we went our seperate ways. I would also start naming everyone that is in his life that does love him so much including his step father, pets, and that usually does help.

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I'm so glad I found this thread, we are going through the exact same thing. Our son is 8 diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, Anxiety and possibly bi-polar. He recently went into a fit and started choaking himself while yelling "daddy stop, your hurting me!" my friend saw the whole thing as my husband stood a few feet away from him in shock as to why his son would say that and then choak himself! Then when I tried to talk to him about it and explain that he can't say things like that, he continued to blame his dad, he believes this is what happened. He also throws himself down the stairs to get attention, puts holes in almost everydoor possible. The endless rage that seems to come from no where is so scary. We saw his doc today and she put him on a low dose of Risperidal to go with his Focalin. I hope it helps. We have 3 other kids in the house to worry about as well. Like some of the other posts, we tell the other children to go to their rooms so they are safe from his rage. All this from an 8 year old who can be very loving and is so smart! He does excellent at school, his teachers didn't know what I was talking about until we tried a new medication that didn't work, intuniv. Anyway, I hate to say thank you because I don't wish our situation on anyone, but it is nice to know other familes have some of the same issues.

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ODD is oppositional defiant disorder. My son has ODD and ADD and when he was younger he had tantrums similar to the ones you have all described. He is older now and still defiant, but where I was once afraid of him when he was younger, I now can see him in there behind the anger. AT 15, maturity is starting to kick in and although he can still be violent, I see in his eyes that he does not want to hurt me and so will back down now where before he might have kept on. He has NEVER hurt an animal and I don't believe hurting small animals is an indication of ODD. I have also learned to speak to him politely first, asking him to do a chore instead of ordering him. Once I ask him however, he is expected to do it, even if we have to go through a tantrum. Sometimes I give him time to get used to the idea first, i.e. telling him at 9 am what chores he has to have done by 3 pm. The chore thing is new, we just started this summer. Yesterday his first fight, he lost electronics for the day because of it, but calmed down later and the rest of the day went well. I guess the only advice I can maybe offer is to stay calm throughout, and DON'T let them know if you are scared. They need to know Mom is in control, especially when they lose it.

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We're taking a new approach with Cindy, very much like you are. Polite first, asking and then giving a reasonable amount of time. We are also trying really hard to ignore the negative behavior, unless she's endangering someone, and really playing up the positive behavior. We've done this with our other 2 girls and it worked really well in no time, but they don't have the same challenges as Cindy.

One thing I started thinking about was her meds. We can tell when the ritalin wears off. I used to take short realease ritalin, then extend release ritalin, but switched to extended release concerta b/c I didn't like the fact that I felt a bit aggressive comming down from any form of ritalin. I'm starting to wonder if that's the case with her. But, Cindy had the aggressive behavior prior to ritalin, but maybe it could be making it worse???

I was unsure about the hurting of animals with ODD. I mentioned that to someone else and they said that was more associated with bipolar. I don't know. It's a question for her doctor.

How are the dads in all of this? I give my husband the advice on how to handle Cindy and he does something different that just doesn't work, even though he doesn't read up on any of this stuff. Are you finding that you as the mom are the household 'expert' on what to do? How involved are the dads in dealing with this?

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wow, this blows me away. I knew I wasnt alone but felt that way for so long. I actually at one point video'd my son to take to the dr. and show her what he was doing. My mother has bi polar disorder but the dr's keep saying that is ADHD but it was just tagged with aggression. I have done research just by googling and found different categories your child may be in and he was in the severe aggressive category. the rages seem to slow down over time. we have talked about it in detail and he knows to try to calm him self down before it happens but mostly he just cant once he gets to that point. it started at home and it got to school. he can't stand more than one authority at school. he gets mad and throws his chair down and calls teachers names. never before would he dare do something like this. I have cried so many nights just wanting my relationship back with my little boy. I also have a two yr old who should never have to see this. my advice to anyone is to stay calm and walk away. the more you get mad the more they get mad and the calmer you are the calmer they will get or faster. I live in the country and I am able to put him outside when he acts that way to get him away from all of us. as long as he's in the house or somewhere he knows I can hear him then he will do this longer. If he's outside away from us (the anger) then he will calm down in less than 10 mins usually instead of an hour. maybe if the family in your house can go outside and do something else and let them know that you are not paying them any attention. I have made goal charts with rewards on the charts. you get a reward when you dont get mad and break things. try a punching bag, that's better than breaking their things. I wish we all had play rooms so that when we send them to their room there were no toys in it! I like being able to read these, they make me feel better. Our church is considering creating an ADHD support group, there are more of us out there then we know. good luck

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I am a speech-language pathologist in an elementary school and we have several students who look a lot like the children described here. The reports of the extreme rage and physical violence are disturbing - have any of you parents taken your child to a psychiatrist? They are eminently more qualified to diagnose a disorder of this magnitude and have the ability to prescribe medication that may help your child. Some of our students, we believe, are struggling with different issues and "hold it together" while in school because of the expectations, rules, structure, peer acceptance, teacher approval, etc., but then "let loose" when home because that's where they feel most comfortable. The cause of the anger could be many different things - it will take some careful examination of school and home behavior, disclosure of ALL family dynamics, situations, and medical histories to begin to identify what's causing these fits of rage. It is true that it is difficult for the school to believe what goes on at home because what we see at school just doesn't mesh with parental reports. I recommend recording the episodes without the child's knowledge (to eliminate the possibility of your child "playing up to the camera") so your doctor can view exactly what goes on. It is also important to keep a log - record the day, time it began, what was going on just before the fit, where it was taking place, what happened - child's behavior as well as anyone's else's, mark the times when behavior changes, and then when it ended and what happened afterward. All this information will be very important for your medical provider to have. My heart goes out to you all.

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Our daughter used to have the same problems. It was so scary when you could see the look in her eyes change and you knew it was going to be a long battle. We were so blessed to find out that Dairy causes her psychotic (that is what I call them) episodes. It took 2 months for all the dairy to be completely out of her system and before we could see the results. During that time I learned so much about diet and the effect it can have on our brains. If you look up Autism Spectrum Diets, you will find many things to try. ADD/ADHD is an Autism Spectrum disorder and 70% of the time will respond to this type of way of eating. We been experimenting with dairy for a little over a year and there is not doubt in the relationship between her episodes and her dairy consumption. It also gives her night terrors. During this time we noticed when we would supstitute soy products for dairy, she would have the same aggresive type response. Our daughter actually test positive for a dairy allergy, but not soy. That reinforced to me that you could absolutely have an intollerance for something without an allergy. There are 5 foods that could cause these type of problems, and many others, for people who can not tollerate them. Dairy, Soy, Eggs, Gluten(Wheat) and Corn. This is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do in my life, since the results are not seen immediatly and it is so important to not cheat during the elimination period if you want true results. But..... it is also the MOST rewarding thing as well. Our beautiful, brilliant, fun loving, energetic daughter has a chance at being ALL God made her to be. I believe that God doesn't make mistakes and that it is a HUGE compliment that he entrusted us with our daughter. He knows that we are the best parents/family for her and it is our responsibility to do everything we can to insure her the best life possible. We also started keeping a journal of the events and I would take them to the family counselor to get "parenting coaching". He would give us very specific techniques on how to handle events instead of generic techniques. I found the support and encouragement we received from this to be extremely valuable. It was great to have someone to help work through the events and our feelings. Hang in There! Trust in God, he doesn't make mistakes. I pray that you and your family will figure out what she needs and have the strength and courage to persevere.

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Oh my gosh. There is so much pain in these notes.

My son is 16 and is about 200 pounds and has rageful episodes. He has ADD, some language processing issues and is probably Oppositional Defiant.

We have seen psychiatrists for years. He has been on Abilify (gained 40 pounds!) and Risperidal (made him angrier!) And a bunch of other meds. He's currently just on Lexapro. I am not sure it is helping.

I will say, please notice if your kids have anger after they take a stimulant. I know for a fact that it can incur anger.

I have been looking at diet lately. I have gone mostly organic on milk. I figure, if they put all those steroids in the cow, what do you think it does to your kids???? I honestly am not sure it is working.

We did find a class called DBT (Dialectical behavioral training). He is attending a weekly class and sees a counselor weekly to support the class. Here is a website. http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/

I have not seen any grand results yet, but I am hopeful.

I think I will try taking him off all milk and see what happens. (He will not be happy about this!)

My cousin takes EmpowerPlus vitamins (expensive) and says it is a godsend. I am wary of them, but I know it has helped some people. Basically a man in Canada researched bi polar and found out that some farmers gave pigs extra vitamins/minerals when their pigs had ear and tail biting disease. Basically, they ask you to initially take 15 pills a day and then slowly come down to say 4 daily. I am sure that most of it is excreted. But perhaps our American diets are sooooo devoid of nutrition, something needed fills in, I am thinking about trying it for him.

It is intolerable living with such horrible anger and violence. It is damaging to us and to him. I try to remain calm. One theory is if the frontal lobe of kids' brains is not active enough (i.e. ADD), then they act out because it excites that part of the brain. So I try hard not to react. I just keep saying, I know you are not acting like the young man that I know you will grow up to be. It is so hard.

I also pray and ask God to surround him in love. I did this for about 15 minutes last night in front of him and he ended up sitting on the floor. Much better than screaming and slamming doors into the walls and making holes.

It is my wish to pray for each and everyone in this thread. I hope I will not offend--- It is meant as a healing prayer for the good of all concerned.

Dear God, Let there be no untoward effects of this prayer, please. Dear God, Please send your white light to surround everyone who is in any pain dealing with any anger or infirmity in this thread. Give everyone who wishes to be blessed the wisdom, courage and strength to deal with what life has dealt them. Give the parents and caretakers your love. Allow them to see the child through the anger and know that no one would choose such behavior. If there is some solution in the form of an altered diet, medication, doctor's care, etc. that would ease the pain of these people, please show them the direction to the process or solution. Let them know that we are all God's children and that we are all loved.

Please give each and everyone affected by these infirmities rest and a peace that passes all understanding. Give them calmness in the storm. Love them all.

Amen

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Perfect angel as school. Occasional tyrant at home. Loudest out of control and destructive six year old ever witnessed. The most remorseful defeated broken child ever to grace my lap.

Coping with ADD is requires extra energy at any age and we all run out at the end of the day. So do the meds. Add to the uncontrolled release a parent with ADD at the end of my day and explosions continue with no end in sight.

Growing up is hard. Maturity does not come easy for ADDers. Eventually something has to give. Thankfully many in this thread have a home where it has a place to happen.

So what worked for us? Nothing. Yes, nothing. When we have our game on, we do nothing. The cork flies, the energy releases and burns out. He knows we're here for him, we make sure he knows this is home and it's not going anywhere, we absorb all that comes our way and try not to add energy. Then pick up the pieces and keep going.

For how long? He's now a much more mature 10 year old with straight A's, a black-belt who plays a clarinet that found and received tools he puts to work and freely gushes affection.

Does it still happen? Not within the time we can recall the last one.

Good luck, remember no one has a smoking gun that solves this one and life is good.

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Our 10 y/o daughter has similar episodes. It's like she's a drunk. You cannot talk to her or reason with her until she "sleeps it off". It's impossible. She's not gotten as violent as you mention, but I've had things thrown at me, I've tried to have her in time out and she just keeps saying "no" in this sassy voice cocking her head and I just want to slap the s...t out of her. It makes me so mad. I physically have had to try to get her to the top of the stairs to sit in time out or to her room, she's tried to bite me, etc. It takes every ounce of self control for me to not just unleash. I also have a 4 y/o daughter and I hate for her to see this and worry she'll pick up on it. She seems smart enough to realize that it all gets her sister into trouble so she's pretty good.

I also worry that something else is going on with her. Our pediatrician says it's pretty classic ADD. ADD kids over react. Everything seems "bigger" to them and they can't control it. However, like some of you, she's GREAT at school. I often will email teachers and say "we had a rough morning" (that puts it lightly!) and she was very upset, just FYI - teachers are shocked to hear some of the behaviors I've told them. Our prior ped was shocked too. I'm glad we found a new ped who I feel is on my side and has given my husband and I so much good advice. I'll share some below, remember, so much of it is easier said than done though - esp in the heat of the moment when your temper is flaring and you have a sibling standing there taking it all in!.

- Delay punishment. State the rules ahead of time (like our big one is disrespect, don't talk to us disrespectfully). And tell the kid if you break a rule, there will be a "consequence" Tell them when they break the rule (we use the 1,2,3 Magic strategy and that works well - that is a wonderful book - if you've not read it - do). If she gets to 3 - there's a consequence. By just hearing "3" she knows she's in trouble. Do not administer punishment during the heat of the moment. You talk about the "consequence" later, when things settle. Otherwise, it just continues to escalate. I've seen it happen so many times! I snap out "you just lost the Wii" and then she'll go "I don't care!!!!" then I go "now you lost the DS", etc. etc. and she gets more and more fired up and it works better to delay punishment and deal it out later.

- Distract them. When you see something brewing, but it's not so so bad, just a situation starting (usually between siblings) - pull the ADD one aside and say, "hey, can you help me with _, I really can't do this very good and you're so good at it, can you help me?" - distracts them and gets them onto something else. This has helped avert a lot of problems for us.

- The less you say the better. Our ped says if you have to say "just" or "because" etc. you're saying too much. They're blocking you out at that point.

- Disengage - this does'nt work for us. But along same lines as say less. Disengage, don't get sucked into it. It escalates my daughter more and makes her madder. I can say "we will talk later" and that's all I can do. I can't talk to her when she's in that state. When the kid is being good, then go to them and say "hey, earlier when you did that really made me feel _, what was going on in your mind then?"

- Read the book "The Five Love Languages of Children" - find our what your kid's "love language" is and how to relate to them and cater to that love language of your child. Mine 10 y/o is "quality time" and when we ground her or isolate her that freaks her out more because she craves that quality time. Find times to give quality time, even if in trouble all day, at the end of the day I try to go to her room and just stroke her hair and talk to her or read a book with her. It makes me feel like we ended on a good note. That book is very helpful and my ped really recommends that.

We also have found red dyes play a big role in poor behavior. And too many late nights catch up w/her. Structure is really impt. for our 10 y/o.

We're on Vyvanse 30 mg w/Intuiv and it's working well. It won't always, but I'll take whatever good day/moment I can. Parenting these kids is EXHAUSTING!!!!

Good luck!

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