Hi Pete- I feel your pain. My son, also 12, has alot of the same issues. He has Tourette Syndrome, and I am taking him to see about ADD and possibly ODD issues-whew, that was hard to write for some reason! Anyway, my son has been going through alot of anger and frustration issues lately and the same issues in school-not doing homework, does not seem to care, just wants to do what HE wants to do, etc,etc. He is currently not on meds and probably will not be able to with his TS if an ADD diagnosis is found-which we are pretty sure it will. Anyway, I have felt the same way as you in the last few weeks, wanting to just "Check Out". Sad and scary feeling as a parent. But I have decided to change my perspective and try to keep a sense of humor, First, I remember that the poor kid has all this hormone stuff going on, and if I remember back to 7th grade-that was a pretty tough year. Second, I read anything I can get my hands on regarding his challenges and weed out what does and does not fit for our situation. I am also re-applying (as I had stopped for a while) the discipline principals in an awesome book I discovered years ago: 1-2-3 Magic. It is a great book, and if you apply it, it really, really does work. The same author also wrote a book on ADD/ADHD with kids too. Dr. Phelan is his name I think. Anyway, 1-2-3 Magic is for ages 2-12 and I just ordered the sequel "Surviving Your Adolescence" ages 13-18. I figured I should get a jump start. Also, I find that praying for my son and for our guidance is most helpful. I am praying that my son will have a "teachable spirit", a clear mind and find the ability to be the best he can be. I also have to remember that I love my son and that someday he will be married with children of his own and I can sit back and smile when he tells me of the struggles he is having with his kids-LOL!

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Hi Pete,

First off, deep breaths...This is what the principal of Andrews school tells me on a daily basis when the phone rings, which just yesterday, he got a ticket for swearing on the bus, and I think does it ever end, didn't we talk about the good fairy and the bad fairy with the DARE officers???...This is typical impulsive behaviour that needs to be addressed and consequences have to be made or these children learn nothing...I have maintained a great open relationship with the school and hopefully you can create that as well...My son is 11 and has an iep so thick , it takes awhile to read through it...One good thing I am learning is to stop beating yourself up over this!...If the teachers & the principal see your concern and can work with you, let them deal with what happens at school and you deal with what happens at home...My son has already this year had 5 in house, meaning in school, detentions...1 suspension, 1 bus ticket warning and it goes on and on and on...Because he is a child with Add/adhd, odd, and high anxiety, they need to contact you first...Go along with whatever consequence he needs to face and make sure he faces it there in school, not at home, why punish yourself over this...I am telling you, after awhile, and, it is never going to be perfect, you will see a change, slight but hopeful, because no child wants to have recess taken away from them or music or art or sit in the principals office for detention, or, most recently, have their Valentines Day party taken away from them while they are in the principals office writing apologies not having fun...Fun is what needs to be taken away and once they realize the school means business, you have to apply the same patterns at home...No DS or Playstation until it is earned...Make charts, 1 2 3 magic went out the door when my son was 6...It doesn't work on him, this is honest...But, if he has to work hard to control the bad patterns or behaviour he has learned over the years, he should be rewarded at the end of the month or week in our case with a trip to the movies, or favorite used video store, etc...It takes hard work, but, you have come this far and you have the power within you to make these changes, it is your reaction that is making him feel confused and therefore lash out more...I am going to find the power in me to stop nagging and screaming, wish me luck...Tough love never hurt anyone, words do and so does physical hurt...Taking a video game or system or anything special to them to earn back is teaching them that you as a parent are done with the bad behaviour and expect to see better behaviour asap!!! Also, please, get a good relationship going with the school...Offer to have a communication folder that you can send back & forth so they can voice their concerns daily and you can yours...Also, is there a guidance counselor that could see him every week, push for it, it is your right...Also, have on hand a good behaviour therapist, a developmental pediatrician and a good psych...As a team you all need to work together, you cannot do this alone, nobody can including your son...Show him more praise and less put downs which is a hard thing to do, trust me...I am also a survivor of add, I outgrew it and so I know exactly what my son is going through...One day, I felt like the whole world just opened up to me in a whole new way, it was amazing...I hope this helps and please, deep breaths, they do work...Good Luck

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Hi Pete,

First off, deep breaths...This is what the principal of Andrews school tells me on a daily basis when the phone rings, which just yesterday, he got a ticket for swearing on the bus, and I think does it ever end, didn't we talk about the good fairy and the bad fairy with the DARE officers???...This is typical impulsive behaviour that needs to be addressed and consequences have to be made or these children learn nothing...I have maintained a great open relationship with the school and hopefully you can create that as well...My son is 11 and has an iep so thick , it takes awhile to read through it...One good thing I am learning is to stop beating yourself up over this!...If the teachers & the principal see your concern and can work with you, let them deal with what happens at school and you deal with what happens at home...My son has already this year had 5 in house, meaning in school, detentions...1 suspension, 1 bus ticket warning and it goes on and on and on...Because he is a child with Add/adhd, odd, and high anxiety, they need to contact you first...Go along with whatever consequence he needs to face and make sure he faces it there in school, not at home, why punish yourself over this...I am telling you, after awhile, and, it is never going to be perfect, you will see a change, slight but hopeful, because no child wants to have recess taken away from them or music or art or sit in the principals office for detention, or, most recently, have their Valentines Day party taken away from them while they are in the principals office writing apologies not having fun...Fun is what needs to be taken away and once they realize the school means business, you have to apply the same patterns at home...No DS or Playstation until it is earned...Make charts, 1 2 3 magic went out the door when my son was 6...It doesn't work on him, this is honest...But, if he has to work hard to control the bad patterns or behaviour he has learned over the years, he should be rewarded at the end of the month or week in our case with a trip to the movies, or favorite used video store, etc...It takes hard work, but, you have come this far and you have the power within you to make these changes, it is your reaction that is making him feel confused and therefore lash out more...I am going to find the power in me to stop nagging and screaming, wish me luck...Tough love never hurt anyone, words do and so does physical hurt...Taking a video game or system or anything special to them to earn back is teaching them that you as a parent are done with the bad behaviour and expect to see better behaviour asap!!! Also, please, get a good relationship going with the school...Offer to have a communication folder that you can send back & forth so they can voice their concerns daily and you can yours...Also, is there a guidance counselor that could see him every week, push for it, it is your right...Also, have on hand a good behaviour therapist, a developmental pediatrician and a good psych...As a team you all need to work together, you cannot do this alone, nobody can including your son...Show him more praise and less put downs which is a hard thing to do, trust me...I am also a survivor of add, I outgrew it and so I know exactly what my son is going through...One day, I felt like the whole world just opened up to me in a whole new way, it was amazing...I hope this helps and please, deep breaths, they do work...Good Luck

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Pete - There are a lot of us out here who know how you feel... keep pursuing all of the resources from school, private agencies, internet, etc. that you can to help your son, and even though you may not always make exactly the right decisions (because you're human, unfortunately!), you'll know that you truly did your best to help him. Then MOST IMPORTANTLY, make sure that you do something to take care of yourself each day to recharge some of the energy that is sucked out of you. Whether it's going for a jog, meeting a friend for coffee (or a drink!), doing a crossword puzzle alone... even a forty five minute break where you aren't dealing with your son's problems will give you that little boost you need to get through to the next day. You are obviously feeling a lot of strain. Take it from me... if you don't put something back in your tank, you won't be any good to your son or yourself. Eventually, he will grow up and you will be relieved of this responsibility. Take care of yourself (and your relationship with your son's mom, if applicable) so that when that day comes, you won't have any regrets, and you won't feel as if your life totally sucked for all of those years.

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I am 37, and was only diagnosed with ADHD less than 12 months ago. I can empathise with you and your son as i remember my own issues at his age. I was very easily bored by school work, particularly if other kids were struggling to grasp a concept i picked up easily. It was only the teachers i respected that could get me to focus for longer periods than others. I grew distant from my parents, due to puberty, but also the increasingly frustrating advice on everything. At a time when a young man needs to explore who he is becoming, having someone say that i should do this or that,or the classic phrase, you are not living up to your potential, was particularly damaging. He is a long way from becoming a man, and needs to enjoy the relatively stress free years he still has as a boy. He does not need to know what will happen if he gets bad grades, or that he wont be able to SUCCEED, rather he needs to be able to come to his male role model for help and advice, rather than judgement. You cannot live his life so should establish a healthy distance, one that allows him to make mistakes and learn the consequences on his own. Reward his efforts, spend quality time with him , notice his differences from you and allow yourself to broaden your awareness by learning off him. Set a pattern now that will allow you to observe where he needs help and where he can stand on his own, and he may not acheive what you expect, but will be more likely to flourish in the areas he wants to and needs to. He is easily distracted at a time when all kids struggle for focus. Find things he can and does focus on, support his choices, and devote some time for those activities as he will learn to complete things he starts, enjoy the process, and ultimately have less idle time to go astray. This is not a Good vs Evil issue, just a square peg being hammered into a round hole. His self esteem will suffer as he fails to fit into a school system not suited to his learning style, and risky behavior will give him attention that he craves and feed that impulse control issue he is battling with. I used to sabotage my schooling because i was unable to make myself concentrate enough to finish any work, so sabotage gave me control as opposed to feeling like a failure. If people think you dont care about getting in trouble, all of a sudden you have notoriety and with that coolness. The rebel without a cause. Good luck for you and your son. If he knows you love him unconditionally, and you share with him some of the hard times you had with school, then the gap between you should not seem so big, for you and for him.

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Boy, this sounds so much like my 16 yo, in fact I called him in to read this and to tell me what I should reply to you. The only difference is that B doesn't have the ODD part of this story. He has the IQ of being gifted and even jumped a year in math but because his processing from thought to paper is 82% it dropped him from gifted program. He also over processes what he wants to say on paper so therefore will not get work in on time or sometimes not do it. His processing from thoughts to verbal is great and if he could just tell the teacher what he thinks he would have all A's. What I do is I have a very clear communication with the school and the teachers I know what B is doing and not doing in each class. It might be that there is something not working in some of C's classes, he could be over bored or he could have the Hypofocus problems that some kids with ADHD have. They become so absorbed in something they are interested and loose track of time or they are so hypofocused on doing an assignment perfectly that they loose track. Or it could be that he is having problems with the school work....all of these things can make it so they get the attitute of "What is the point, I can't get it done on time so why do it or hand it in" . ADHD/ODD kids don't think the way non ADHD/ODD people do, their thought patteren is scattered. It was once described as a train station with a millon trains going through at one time...if not careful you can skip a track and go totally some other place. Here is my 16yo edited advice:

Okay, the way I got my "stuff" straight was with God. I found a local youth group and the first night I was there I accepted Jesus into my heart. Ever since then, my life has been nothing but positive; I joined KAYS, FCA, Foreign Language club, I started doing a lot more sports, I was making friends, good friends that would stand behind me through anything,.... I felt so much better about everything. I really don't know what your spiritual situation (for lack of better wording) is, but if there are any youth groups or houses of worship for younger audiences in your area, encourage him to go and rejuvenate his life with a "higher power" (be that God or whoever). If you are willing to have your son become a man of God and you have heard of the Passion Of The Christ, I recommend either renting or buying it then setting him down and having him watch it. He will realize what Jesus went through just so we might live with him in Heaven. I recieved the call to be a missionary about a month ago, to anybody and everybody who needs somebody who will never let them down, and I have been able to help about a dozen people already. The only thing I have gotten back is amazement that God could do that. That is the second best feeling ever--- the first is truly knowing how much Jesus loves you. That is all I needed; that and parents that would support me in anything I do and give me a level launch pad so the only direction I can go is UP. What my son is trying to say is that you have to set a few boundaries that can be reenforced easily. Kids (especially pre teen and teenagers) have a hard time anyway keeping focused but when you add the problems of JR/HS and ADHD/ODD you will have a recipe for disaster. Make a chart with list of things that you want met (i.e. do chores in certain time limit, good grades in each class, rules and limits with his friends, etc). List the rewards for meeting each task (i.e. allowance, extra time on PC, TV or video games, extra time with friend as long as they are positive role models, etc.) and penalty for breaking a rule or not meeting conditions. In my son's case he is having issues with doing work in certain classes so therefore his grades are down. He wanted to go to a special program that his school has where you can got to VoTech during junior & senior year to get a associates degree. All we have to pay is supplies and a small fee each semester. We told him that if he wants to do this he has to pass each and every class, he has to show us that he is interested and mature enough to take on this load. If not then we will not waste the money to approve this because he will not have the needed credits to be approved for a college level education anyway. He will be too busy retaking the classes he has already taken (which to a kids with ADHD is like walking in boring mud). So you could also mentioned that if he doesn't want to make an effort and do the work now that instead of just going through once and getting it over with he can redo the classes and be completely bored which will only make the class more boring. That quitting school is not an option unless he wants to work at a hamburger joint the rest of his life. Our middle son got so far behind that he did quit school but he is now pretty upset that he did because he has been in jail 2 times and can't find a good job except waiting tables which doesn't pay the bills as well as it used to. And he got in alot of trouble hanging with So I guess my advise is to ask him what is the problem as he sees it (be non judgemental letting him know you are interested in what he is saying and listen), then speck to teachers to get their view point (hopefully they will not have given up on him yet). If he has a special ed teacher get their veiws also ask if they see just a defiance in doing work or a problems that he might be covering up with his actions. And discuss the problems with his doctor...I hate the fact that your son is on the highest dosage of Concerta and also on Ritalin....that is just too much meds. Both have been known to cause agressive behavor and mood swings let alone health problems that could come up in future (the data is not all in on the long term effects of both meds put together and at these dosages). My son was on 36mg which was not enough so doctor gave extra 18mg for total 54mg but it made him too agressive and he started having BP problems so we stopped the 18mg. So his now just on the 36mg but we also have him on a teen amino acid suppliment that helps alot in helping with smoothing things out. Being the parent of a tween and teenager is hard but it is frustration more so when you also have to deal with ADHD/ODD so I feel for you. You do feel like you have reached your limit and just want to give up. You can still be there but let him understand that if he wants help you will help but it is in his park now and then let him make his mistakes. Say something a couple of times but don't nag as they tune you out when you do that. I will say that when B found the youth group things did start looking up thought we still have to do the things I mentioned here with the charts. I wish you luck in reaching your son before he gets in so deep that it will take a bull dozer to dig him out or he starts down a very bad path of getting inot trouble. I will keep you in my prayers that you figure things out. Misty

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peter679 said: Hello, this is my 1st post and I've just gotten to the point where I'm about to quit! Long story short, my son has been classified/diagnosed with ADHD/ODD for some time now, he's 12 and is on 54mg concerta in the am and 20mg Ritalin in the afternoons. Although I hate the fact that I have to give him any meds!

Dealing with C is like trying to put a railroad stake into a piece of granite with my forehead EVERYDAY! Currently the biggest issue is the fact that he is just not doing his part in school! He's constantly missing assignments, not acting correctly in class and just a general pain in the ass to many of the teachers! He is a VERY smart kid, but would rather fail because it's easier and takes no effort what so ever.. I keep trying to explain the long term issue with this way of thinking.. "look your going to be 18 in 5 1/2 years and out of high school, what do you think your going to do?" nothing... I tell him my issues with ADHD and that I didn't have the benefit of the meds, and that to this day I struggle with it and it has held me back and my behavior held me back. I'm lucky to be where I am today! Very lucky! I didn't goto college but got lucky! He has to to be competitive today.. anyways, deaf ears is what I get.. my wife says i talk to him too much, but i just care so damn much! I see what he can be if he dials it in, but he'd rather be an f off at school with his friends...

I personally want to quit with him... let him fail on his own, and when he comes to me, I'll say to him and with all my heart mean it.. I did my part you didn't want to do yours... you made your bed as I had made mine, now what do you plan on doing with it...

I don't what to do with him or if there's anything out there for him, he's in an IEP at school but it's not because of his intelligence it's because he has ZERO self control (major impulivity).. he thinks he's dumb, but as I tell him your not (and he isn't, hell he read the lord of the ring novels at age 8 and could recite them to you! LOL) you just don't do what you need to...

I'm in hell, and see nothing but bad things in his future at this rate... and that kills me!

any help resources etc if possible...

Pete

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peter679 said: Hello, this is my 1st post and I've just gotten to the point where I'm about to quit! Long story short, my son has been classified/diagnosed with ADHD/ODD for some time now, he's 12 and is on 54mg concerta in the am and 20mg Ritalin in the afternoons. Although I hate the fact that I have to give him any meds!

Dealing with C is like trying to put a railroad stake into a piece of granite with my forehead EVERYDAY! Currently the biggest issue is the fact that he is just not doing his part in school! He's constantly missing assignments, not acting correctly in class and just a general pain in the ass to many of the teachers! He is a VERY smart kid, but would rather fail because it's easier and takes no effort what so ever.. I keep trying to explain the long term issue with this way of thinking.. "look your going to be 18 in 5 1/2 years and out of high school, what do you think your going to do?" nothing... I tell him my issues with ADHD and that I didn't have the benefit of the meds, and that to this day I struggle with it and it has held me back and my behavior held me back. I'm lucky to be where I am today! Very lucky! I didn't goto college but got lucky! He has to to be competitive today.. anyways, deaf ears is what I get.. my wife says i talk to him too much, but i just care so damn much! I see what he can be if he dials it in, but he'd rather be an f off at school with his friends...

I personally want to quit with him... let him fail on his own, and when he comes to me, I'll say to him and with all my heart mean it.. I did my part you didn't want to do yours... you made your bed as I had made mine, now what do you plan on doing with it...

I don't what to do with him or if there's anything out there for him, he's in an IEP at school but it's not because of his intelligence it's because he has ZERO self control (major impulivity).. he thinks he's dumb, but as I tell him your not (and he isn't, hell he read the lord of the ring novels at age 8 and could recite them to you! LOL) you just don't do what you need to...

I'm in hell, and see nothing but bad things in his future at this rate... and that kills me!

any help resources etc if possible...

Pete

The most striking thing I'm hearing about your post, besides understandable frustration, is that you are primarily focusing on your son's negative behavior. If you want to turn his behavior around, you need to stop that immediately and permanently. For example, you told him that he didn't want to do his part. Why are you dictating to him what he does and doesn't want to do? Why are you comparing yourself to him and placing yourself on a pedestal and communicating to him that he's a failure and a disappointment? I completely understand your desperation, so don't beat yourself up about this, but if you want to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, you're well on your way.

The ONLY way to turn this around is stop paying attention to his negative behaviors. Stop putting your magnifying glass onto his supposed failings. As a matter of fact, just turn that switch off. In its place, turn on the switch in your head where you notice everything that he does that's right, even if it's just one thing in a day. Say it out loud to him EVERY TIME he does something you like. Things won't change the moment you snap your fingers. Since he's 12, it'll take work and commitment. My son's behavioral specialist says that based on three decades of experience, if parents in your position (as I'm reading it and assuming) apply effective behavioral techniques to these kind of children on a consistent basis, within three years this kid will be compliant with you. IT CAN HAPPEN. But it's up to YOU. If you need to get professional help, do it.

My son's behavioral specialist once told me that bright parents often try to reason with their kids too much. It seems counterintuitive NOT to reason, since we want to explain things to our kids and make them understand, but based on several decades of experience, the behavioral specialist said don't do it. You tell them what to do, ignore the bad stuff, pay attention to and acknowledge the good stuff - that is how you guide them - and make them ask permission for everything. Remind yourself: It takes TWO to argue.

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eltanin@adhdparents.net said:

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peter679 said: Hello, this is my 1st post and I've just gotten to the point where I'm about to quit! Long story short, my son has been classified/diagnosed with ADHD/ODD for some time now, he's 12 and is on 54mg concerta in the am and 20mg Ritalin in the afternoons. Although I hate the fact that I have to give him any meds!

Dealing with C is like trying to put a railroad stake into a piece of granite with my forehead EVERYDAY! Currently the biggest issue is the fact that he is just not doing his part in school! He's constantly missing assignments, not acting correctly in class and just a general pain in the ass to many of the teachers! He is a VERY smart kid, but would rather fail because it's easier and takes no effort what so ever.. I keep trying to explain the long term issue with this way of thinking.. "look your going to be 18 in 5 1/2 years and out of high school, what do you think your going to do?" nothing... I tell him my issues with ADHD and that I didn't have the benefit of the meds, and that to this day I struggle with it and it has held me back and my behavior held me back. I'm lucky to be where I am today! Very lucky! I didn't goto college but got lucky! He has to to be competitive today.. anyways, deaf ears is what I get.. my wife says i talk to him too much, but i just care so damn much! I see what he can be if he dials it in, but he'd rather be an f off at school with his friends...

I personally want to quit with him... let him fail on his own, and when he comes to me, I'll say to him and with all my heart mean it.. I did my part you didn't want to do yours... you made your bed as I had made mine, now what do you plan on doing with it...

I don't what to do with him or if there's anything out there for him, he's in an IEP at school but it's not because of his intelligence it's because he has ZERO self control (major impulivity).. he thinks he's dumb, but as I tell him your not (and he isn't, hell he read the lord of the ring novels at age 8 and could recite them to you! LOL) you just don't do what you need to...

I'm in hell, and see nothing but bad things in his future at this rate... and that kills me!

any help resources etc if possible...

Pete

The most striking thing I'm hearing about your post, besides understandable frustration, is that you are primarily focusing on your son's negative behavior. If you want to turn his behavior around, you need to stop that immediately and permanently. For example, you told him that he didn't want to do his part. Why are you dictating to him what he does and doesn't want to do? Why are you comparing yourself to him and placing yourself on a pedestal and communicating to him that he's a failure and a disappointment? I completely understand your desperation, so don't beat yourself up about this, but if you want to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, you're well on your way.

The ONLY way to turn this around is stop paying attention to his negative behaviors. Stop putting your magnifying glass onto his supposed failings. As a matter of fact, just turn that switch off. In its place, turn on the switch in your head where you notice everything that he does that's right, even if it's just one thing in a day. Say it out loud to him EVERY TIME he does something you like. Things won't change the moment you snap your fingers. Since he's 12, it'll take work and commitment. My son's behavioral specialist says that based on three decades of experience, if parents in your position (as I'm reading it and assuming) apply effective behavioral techniques to these kind of children on a consistent basis, within three years this kid will be compliant with you. IT CAN HAPPEN. But it's up to YOU. If you need to get professional help, do it.

My son's behavioral specialist once told me that bright parents often try to reason with their kids too much. It seems counterintuitive NOT to reason, since we want to explain things to our kids and make them understand, but based on several decades of experience, the behavioral specialist said don't do it. You tell them what to do, ignore the bad stuff, pay attention to and acknowledge the good stuff - that is how you guide them - and make them ask permission for everything. Remind yourself: It takes TWO to argue.

By the way, just a correction. When I wrote, "you tell them what to do" I meant something a little different, so it could be misconstrued. The best tactic is to give them an option between two things, so they feel they have an empowered choice. For example, "you can either wash the car or weed the garden." The key is not to make one necessarily positive and the other negative, or a punishment. Both should be positive. You don't want to say something like, "do your homework or go sit in the bathroom until I tell you to come out." The point is to empower them so they don't really notice that you are the one steering the ship, so to speak. It gives them a little room for independence while the parent calls the shots. That way, you ARE telling them what to do but it gives them some space at the same time. Less oppositional behavior will eventually result, if you're consistent with that.

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I was actucally looking on here for things to help me with my son's issues when I came across your post. I completely understand what you're going through having issues and yet reading this I kind of flashed back to when I was in school. I don't have ADHD or ADD, but I was one of those kids that cared more about having fun and what my friends thought of me then I did my school work. My parents would make me sit at the table for hours upon hours watching me do my homework and I fought them tooth and nail! My junior year of high school they finally (wow that sounds bad lol) gave up on me. I will never forget my step-dad towering over me explaining that if I wanted to be uneducated then it was my choice. He took me into the closest town (we lived in the country) and showed me these grown men and women working at fast food resturants and that they were there because they gave up on school. At 16, I didn't care. I knew EVERYTHING lol...and at 17 that attitude got me pregnant with my son. I had to grow up really fast and change my entire mind set. After graduating high school I had no interest in going to college...but in 2005 I decided that getting an education was the only option for me to make something of myself and provide for my son. Since my parents had literally given up on me during my junior year of high school, they didn't even acknowledge the fact that I had graduated. My graduation from college is coming up in October and all my parents have to say is "ok, good." Nothing more, nothing less. I guess the whole point of me posting this response is to tell you that I see both sides of the story and to make sure you don't make the same mistake my parents did. When it all comes down to it, if your son wants to fail, he's going to fail regardless of your efforts. But please, PLEASE when he does graduate (high school, college, tech-school, whatever it may be) let him know you're proud of him. It was the worst feeling in the world to not have my parents at my high school graduation and that feeling keeps coming back the closer I get to October. It's not a good feeling when you accomplish something you never imagined you could do and have nobody there showing support.

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