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Thread : Problems Taking Notes  
26 Dec 2008 @ 10:34 AM
tjarted68 Join Date: Mon 22nd Dec 2008
Threads: 2 Posts: 2
Problems Taking Notes

Hello,

I am told I am what you would call a "gifted" student, but I have difficulties in reading and writing. I can never seem to figure out what the main idea is when reading a paragraph or a chapter, SO I HIGHLIGHT EVERYTHING I READ PRACTICALLY!

Usually after ABOUT 3,4, EVEN 5 REPETITIONS OF READING SOMETHING I AM ABLE TO BREAK IT DOWN AND UNDERSTAND THE MAIN POINT OF SOMETHING! Usually bettre than most who did it in less time than I did. BUT THAT'S THE PROBLEM! I GET THERE, BUT IT TAKES ME SOOO LONG SOMETIMES! I FEEL LIKE A LATE BLOOMER! I HAVE TO GO THRU MORE THAN THE AVERAGE GUY OR GIRL JUST TO GET TO UNDERSTANDING IT,THEN WHEN I DO GET THERE, I USUALLY GET BETTER THAN THEY DO, BUT I'M OFTEN LATE ABOUT IT!

IT'S NOT THAT I AM A PERFECTIONIST, IT'S THAT I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER WAY TO DO IT EXCEPT MY WAY! DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

I know I was writing in all caps and that means shouting on the Internet,it's just that I get so FRUSTRATED sometimes! I am in college, almost done, but it would be GREAT to learn an easier way to do all this stuff!!! YOU KNOW,WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER!

Any thoughts, ideas or advice on this? I hope to hear from someone soon!

Sincerely, Frustrated 40 something Arted Undergrad

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26 Dec 2008 @ 2:43 PM Reply # 1
Elaine20 Join Date: Sat 10th Nov 2007
Threads: 5 Posts: 265
Difficulties in reading comprehension and writing

Hi,

Have you been diagnosed with ADHD? I am also intelligent and would qualify as gifted and yet I had the same problem with reading comprehension that you mentioned. My sister, who was valedictorian of her high school graduating class, had the same problem as well. We only recently realized that we both have inattentive ADHD and were subsequently diagnosed.

( In one of my college classes I brought a small tape recorder to class. I still took notes as best I could but then I went home and listened to the tape recorded class twice more to finish my note-taking! I only knew of one other person in the class who did the same. The teacher also required a lot of outside reading, reading the text , and I forgot to mention that his lectures were not from the textbook but totally different. He graded on a curve however and I remember his first test. I bombed it, getting only a 50 after all that work. But since he graded on a curve, it turned out that I had the highest grade in the class. Not sure that this story really relates to the ADHD but I couldn't help but think of it when you mentioned taking notes.)

My sister and I both had to reread texts several times to comprehend it all. And I hated writing papers. Coming up with an idea, how to organize my thoughts and ideas on paper, etc., was very difficult for me. I would rather go to a dentist than write a paper.

As I researched inattentive ADHD, and SCT symptoms as well, which fit both my sister and I, I could relate to so much of it. I have problems with working memory, which is the ability to keep a lot of different thoughts in your mind at the same time. For example, if someone gave me a task to do that required several steps, I would not be able to remember it all unless I wrote it down first. Others seemed to be able to remember this better than I could.

Once I started on medication, Vyvanse 140 mg. , it worked wonders for me. I was able to comprehend more of what I read and I could actually write memos and letters with little problem. And I was able to organize the thoughts and information in my brain into something cohesive. I could remember multiple steps without having to write it down. I only wish I had known this sooner since I am 48 yrs. old and went through college struggling as you have.

Here's a simple analogy of the difference between accomplishing something without the medication and with it. You may have perfect eyesight (compare this to your high intelligence) but try driving in a rainstorm without working windshield wipers. It can be done but it takes a lot of concentration and effort and you will most likely need to drive slower. But when your windshield wipers are working properly, what a difference it makes! Your eyesight was fine (just as your intelligence is fine) but without the right tools (working windshield wipers or medication for your ADHD) it is much more difficult and exhausting.

I am so glad that I have the ability to use my intelligence more effectively now but I am sad that so many years went by without having that tool. I suggest learning more about ADHD in adults, esp. the inattentive type, and getting a diagnosis if you haven't already. And medication, in particular the Adderall XR or Vyvanse for inattentive ADHD, may be able to help you as well.

Good luck,

Elaine

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27 Dec 2008 @ 9:41 AM Reply # 2
tjarted68 Join Date: Mon 22nd Dec 2008
Threads: 2 Posts: 2
SCOPE AND ORGANIZATION THROW ME OFF.

Hi Elaine,

I was diagnosed with inattentive ADD. I have a problem following directions unless they are written down for me (in a linear fashion, and pictures help too, as I am a highly visual learner.) Demonstrations don't always do it for me, I need the concrete, tangible notes to refer back to it.

Also,with reading andcomprehension, I tend to get bogged down in details. I HAVE NO PROBLEMS COMING UP WITH IDEAS FOR WRITING COMPOSITIONS. IN FACT, THAT CREATIVE SPARK (BOTH ARTISTICALLY , WHICH IS WHY I AM BECOMING AN ART TEACHER, AND IN A LITERARY SENSE, I LIKE CREATIVE WRITING) IS THE PART OF WHAT MAKES ME 'GIFTED'. I WOULD GLADLY TRADE YOU SOME OF MY WONDERFUL IDEAS FOR YOUR NEWLY STRUCTURED THOUGHT PROCESS! LET ME KNOW, I'D BE HAPPY TO OBLIGE!

However, with EVERYTHING I DO, IT ALL COMES TO ME AS ONE BIG ORGANIC MESS OF THOTS AND DETAILS AND SUCH, very much like a sculpture or something that has alot of parts that NEEDS TO BE ASSEMBLED WITH NO DIRECTIONS TO IT!! Makes it VERY HARD TO SCOPE OUT THE WHOLE PROCEDURE OUT, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

I am going to have to get some help with this SOON! As I am embarking on taking the PRAXIS 1 EXAM for official admittance into the Education Program at my college.

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR MORE FROM YOU! PLEASE REPLY! Hope to hear from you soon!

tSincerely, TJARTED68

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28 Dec 2008 @ 8:28 PM Reply # 3
Elaine20 Join Date: Sat 10th Nov 2007
Threads: 5 Posts: 265
Instructions

Quote:

tjarted68 said:

I was diagnosed with inattentive ADD. I have a problem following directions unless they are written down for me (in a linear fashion, and pictures help too, as I am a highly visual learner.) Demonstrations don't always do it for me, I need the concrete, tangible notes to refer back to it.

That describes me as well. Assembling a piece of furniture with various parts or setting up the programming for a new TV, universal remote, DVD, etc. took me forever as I had to understand each instruction and figure out the terminology and what they were talking about---whenever possible I would try to find someone else to do it for me.

Elaine

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28 Dec 2008 @ 11:14 PM Reply # 4
Nay Join Date: Sun 18th May 2008
Threads: 0 Posts: 9
Comprehension/Note taking

Quote:

tjarted68 said: Hello,

I am told I am what you would call a "gifted" student, but I have difficulties in reading and writing. I can never seem to figure out what the main idea is when reading a paragraph or a chapter, SO I HIGHLIGHT EVERYTHING I READ PRACTICALLY!

Usually after ABOUT 3,4, EVEN 5 REPETITIONS OF READING SOMETHING I AM ABLE TO BREAK IT DOWN AND UNDERSTAND THE MAIN POINT OF SOMETHING! Usually bettre than most who did it in less time than I did. BUT THAT'S THE PROBLEM! I GET THERE, BUT IT TAKES ME SOOO LONG SOMETIMES! I FEEL LIKE A LATE BLOOMER! I HAVE TO GO THRU MORE THAN THE AVERAGE GUY OR GIRL JUST TO GET TO UNDERSTANDING IT,THEN WHEN I DO GET THERE, I USUALLY GET BETTER THAN THEY DO, BUT I'M OFTEN LATE ABOUT IT!

IT'S NOT THAT I AM A PERFECTIONIST, IT'S THAT I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER WAY TO DO IT EXCEPT MY WAY! DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

I know I was writing in all caps and that means shouting on the Internet,it's just that I get so FRUSTRATED sometimes! I am in college, almost done, but it would be GREAT to learn an easier way to do all this stuff!!! YOU KNOW,WORK SMARTER NOT HARDER!

Any thoughts, ideas or advice on this? I hope to hear from someone soon!

Sincerely, Frustrated 40 something Arted Undergrad

Wow, When I read this today I was like WOW..This describes me to a T ! I have always had this problem, I practically write down everything I hear or read, so my brain might pick up some valuable information. I have that AWW moment maybe after the 3rd or 4th time reading something, and then , just like you, I become an expert on the subject..It takes so much out of me and it used to make me feel like I was just dumb!..Why was everybody else "getting" it right away, and I would have to go home and disect it very well befor I GOT it! Very frustrating and It is probably why I am such a quiet person most of the time, I don't want to sound dumb when asked a question because even if I know the answer, I'll suddenly forget it, like it doesn't store in my memory, even after the AWW I got it moment..it sucks. However, with medicine which I do take now, I definatley see a big difference, I can actually read the whole thing once or maybe twice and comprehend it a lot better than without meds..So it helps.

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30 Dec 2008 @ 2:45 AM Reply # 5
Firecracker Join Date: Sat 31st May 2008
Threads: 11 Posts: 38
Sympathy and a few tips

Quote:

tjarted68 said:

I am told I am what you would call a "gifted" student, but I have difficulties in reading and writing. I can never seem to figure out what the main idea is when reading a paragraph or a chapter, SO I HIGHLIGHT EVERYTHING I READ PRACTICALLY!

Usually after ABOUT 3,4, EVEN 5 REPETITIONS OF READING SOMETHING I AM ABLE TO BREAK IT DOWN AND UNDERSTAND THE MAIN POINT OF SOMETHING! Usually bettre than most who did it in less time than I did. BUT THAT'S THE PROBLEM! I GET THERE, BUT IT TAKES ME SOOO LONG SOMETIMES!

Hi Tjarted,

I don't know if this helps, but I think I know what you're talking about. When I'm taking notes on a lecture, presentation, or meeting, my hand basically never stops, and I know I miss bits b/c my brain is trying to finish its last thought while new information is streaming in. When reading, I sometimes end up highlighting or underlining almost the whole document, and my discipline in documenting things logically usually breaks down by the end of the article/book (if I even finish it!!). Reading takes me forever, largely because I can't focus on it enough to catch all the important information, and sometimes I get through entire pages or even chapters and realize that I have no clue what I just read.

As for organizing writing, it's always been a bit of a struggle, although somehow my nack for noticing things that others don't has tended to pull me through grade-wise. I tend to do my best in class discussion, however, because then I have someone to help my thread along when it's not quite comprehensible to the non-ADD mind.

Overtime, I've either gotten better in or worked around most of these areas of weakness, although if it's all that I'm doing it soon becomes too much to maintain (which would be why I'm leaving my doctoral program).

For exams that involve writing, my best advice would be practice, practice, PRACTICE! Even doing just a couple of practice essays within the time constraints that you'll have for the exam helps immensely. That's how I got through my MA exam and succeeded on the GRE writing section -- my first practice essays for a given test were sometimes horrible, but eventually I got the hang of it.

The same goes for note-taking. For anything I'm listening to, I attempt to take my notes in outline form (ie intenting for sub-points), so at least they're somewhat organized. Everytime the topic shifts significantly (say, the professor finishes giving the bio of an author and then starts talking about the work we read for class), I treat it as a new section and begin w/a non-indented line. Often I'll go back and "clean up" my notes after class, either in places where I got confused during the lecture, or where I know I'll forget what I meant after a couple of days, or where I simply couldn't finish my thought. If I'm really stuck, sometimes I'll see if another student caught what I missed.

Part of the trick is knowing what to listen/read for. Here are some things I've either been told at one point or another or found out on my own. Sorry if any of them sound ridiculously basic (I don't know what you've been taught), and feel free to take with a huge hunk of salt!!

1) Generally the begininning or end of a paragraph / chapter /article / book hold most of the basic ideas. So introductions, conclusions, thesis statements, concluding statements, and topic sentences are really good places to focus on either if you're forced to skim or if you need to re-read for comprehension. You may not catch everything, but you'll probably be able to follow the main idea of what you just read.

2) Wherever to author/ speaker uses a number, make note of that (eg: something like "I disagree what whatshisname in two ways...", or "there were three major influences in the author's work..."). This includes more generic "numbers" like "several" or "a number of" (eg: "One could raise several objections to this argument"). Each point/fact/whatever is usually then preceded by some variation of "first," "second," "third", and so on. Basically, he/she is handing "the main point" on a plate. Three is an especially common number.

3) If you're having trouble with highlighting everything, I would suggest attempting to read the text in chunks, and only applying ink after each chunk has been read in its entirety (even if just briefly). In other words, read 2 or 3 paragraphs, and then highlight. While it doesn't solve the speed probelm, at least you stand a chance at leaving some of the paper white.

4) Sort of similar to suggestion number 2, watch/listen for words and phrases that serve as markers or transitions. Ones like "however", "yet", "despite", "given", "similarly" or "another" often indicate some sort f relationship between ideas (contrast, cause-effect, comparison). Phrases like "most importantly", "in short", "in other words," or "I argue that" are usually indicators of the condensed version of a whole bunch of detail. "First", "next," "then," "finally", etc. mark either new steps in directions, or new points in an argument, and the crux of that step / point is usally summarized right after.

It's about becoming sensitive to emphasis, whether through language, format (bold, italics, charts, the presenter writing somthing on a blackboard or including it in a powerpoint), or pauses (these included paragraph / chapter breaks!!). Emphasis is code for "DON'T SKIM HERE" and, when done well, is there to do the filtering for you--the rest, again in the case of a good writer / speaker, is there to add meat to the skeleton of the main ideas, and is often less frustrating to sift through if you identify the skeleton that hold it all together.

Hope some of this helps! FC

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29 May 2009 @ 4:53 PM Reply # 6
eslielay Join Date: Fri 29th May 2009
Threads: Posts:
Note taking miracle

I know I am late to this party, but I too am 40 and while not in college, I did just finish a prep course for credentials in my profession. I found a gadget called Pulse Pen. It's a pen with a hard drive and tiny camera that captures what you are writing on specially encoded paper and you can also record the sound at the same time. Later you can tap the pen at any point in your notes and hear what was being said. Contents can be uploaded to your PC and now it supports Mac too. It's a little strange to remember to "turn on your pen", but I swear if I'd had this in high school, I might have gone on to college. No regrets, just saying... Google Smart Pen or Pulse Pen. You can buy starter sets at Target and Costco in 1gb or 2gb capacities. For those with messy handwriting (what?) there is also software that will convert your notes to text. It has to be fairly legible, but it's a neat trick. Good luck!

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10 May 2011 @ 9:49 PM Reply # 7
jasonmark Join Date: Tue 10th May 2011
Threads: Posts:
Mind Mapping

Look up Mind Mapping and you will find that it will help you organize your thoughts.

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