From a previous therapist: "No one should have trouble making a 10am appointment (her office was 1 hour away). If you can't get up early your depression is very severe and I won't treat you unless you go on meds." On the first appointment I made it clear I wasn't going on meds; I'd be on and off so many different meds (for depression only) at that point I just couldn't face more and dealing with the weird side-effects. I explained I was a 'night owl' and wanted afternoon appointments. I tried to explain the DSPS concept to her but she dismissed it. I stopped seeing her. However, I've had many therapists and doctors who don't understand the concept of DSPS. Had many conversations like this: 1. No, it's not a sleep hygiene issue; tried it, doesn't change. 2. It's not a 'habit'. I can force myself out of bed at 6am every day for 3 months but I'll never feel rested, I'll still have trouble falling asleep, there will be many days I'll try and function on 3 hours sleep and no, it's STILL not a sleep hygiene issue. 3. If I go to bed at 11pm it can take me hours to fall asleep; if I go to be at 6am I'm asleep within 15 mins., sleep about 8 hours, wake up without an alarm and feel quite rested. 4. Now, why don't YOU, Doctor, try changing YOUR natural sleep schedule and see how YOU feel.

From what I've read there does seem to be a correlation with ADHD and DSPS but so far I haven't found any studies that focus on the combination exclusively. There are articles that focus on circadian rhythm disorders in general and DSPS specifaclly. Treatment options for DSPS don't seem promising--the rigid sleep hygiene, various medications and light therapy at very specific times can help tremendously--unfortunately, the regimen must be strictly adhered to or you slip back into DSPS patterns.

I've also been fighting nocturnal tendencies for a long time. It compounds the frustrations of trying to create and manage some semblance of a normal life by limiting opportunities for jobs, recreation, friends. And I've had several people who envied my 'luxury' of sleeping late. Why don't they realize that I sleep the same amount they do, just different hours!

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Let me say I totally empathize with your syndrome. First of all, a therapist should never talk to someone the way that they did to you. I am just completing an undergraduate degree in human services and I pray that I never talk to a client in that manner.

What attracted me to your posting is the fact that my ADHD son (10 years old) goes to bed much later then his peers. Even if I send him to bed at a "normal" time he will not fall asleep until much much later. He appears to need a great deal of time to wind down and "typically" cannot fall asleep any earlier then 11:30 but, finds it easier to fall asleep after midnight.

I, too, even though I have now been conformed to the "other side" can sleep "normal' hours but, I typically do not become fully awake until late afternoon or early evening. In my 20's I always worked second shift or evening hours and found it very conducive to my sleep cycle. I did not know there were people that suffer from this syndrome. Most people have always viewed me as "lazy". Good luck and you are not lazy or weird.

kelbo

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Hi Katz, I truly feel your pain and wish there were more research on delayed sleep phase syndrome (dsps) with adhd. As a child I was always coined as a "night owl" and just "plain lazy" in the morning. I've always been plagued with delayed sleep and it has negatively affected most aspects of my life. I too have searched the web for ways to correct the problem and have found the same results as you did. I guess the real problem is that dsps is not really a "problem" it's just not society's standard of sleeping and waking. I look at it like adhd. It's not that my attention is deficit, it's just different then non-ADHDer's. But, to make life easier for people with dsps, I do wish there was something we could do to change our internal clocks and not have to be on such a stringent regiment that’s impossible to stick with. Let’s hope someone is reading these posts that have some answers…..anyone??? Thanks

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So that's what it is called! I have had this since I was a child. Now at least I know the name for it.

It may encourage you to know that there is research being done here in the UK at the moment on ADHD and sleep patterns, and I suspect this probably includes DSPS specifically.

A friend of mine took part in a study being done that hypothesised that people with ADHD have a peak sleep time that is different to most people. According to my friend, this study was designed to test the proposal that most people's peak sleep time is about 4am, but people with ADHD have a peak time that could be at, say 8pm, or 11am, which in turn can cause all kinds of problems. I think they are trying to find out whether ADHD causes the sleep variation, or vice versa.

The studies are being done at the Swansea University, in Wales, UK. I have found a couple of links referring to one of these studies. http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17948273 http://neurologicalcorrelates.com/wordpress/2007/10/22/daylight-savings-time-ends-november-4-unless-you-have-clock-gene-polymorphism-rs1801260/

Dr Johannes Thome is one of the people involved in these studies. That's all I know about them.

Some people with either ADHD, DSPS or both take Melatonin, a sleep hormone, to help them get to sleep. Melatonin is relatively safe and has little side effects, but as always, it is best to check with your doctor. Pilots often take it to help get combat jet lag.

As I understand it, in the US it is available in health food shops, but it in the UK you have to order it online, or get it prescribed by a doctor, as it is considered to be a medicine. It is legal to import it though. I get mine online from Puritan's Pride in the US.

I have tried Melatonin and it helped me get to sleep immediately. The first time I tried it, I was able to get to sleep at a normal time and wake up the next morning feeling fresh and awake, which rarely happens for me. I would like to try a 'slow-release' melatonin. Apparently, the normal melatonin is good for inducing sleep, the slow-release one is good for getting a consistent night's sleep.

I hope this helps.

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(... Sorry to double post this, but in the previous one I had a long link that seemed to mess up the readability of the post. Here it is again.) So that's what it is called! I have had this since I was a child. Now at least I know the name for it.

It may encourage you to know that there is research being done here in the UK at the moment on ADHD and sleep patterns, and I suspect this probably includes DSPS specifically.

A friend of mine took part in a study being done that hypothesised that people with ADHD have a peak sleep time that is different to most people. According to my friend, this study was designed to test the proposal that most people's peak sleep time is about 4am, but people with ADHD have a peak time that could be at, say 8pm, or 11am, which in turn can cause all kinds of problems. I think they are trying to find out whether ADHD causes the sleep variation, or vice versa.

The studies are being done at the Swansea University, in Wales, UK. I have found a link referring to one of these studies. http://lib.bioinfo.pl/pmid:17948273

Dr Johannes Thome is one of the people involved in these studies. That's all I know about them.

Some people with either ADHD, DSPS or both take Melatonin, a sleep hormone, to help them get to sleep. Melatonin is relatively safe and has little side effects, but as always, it is best to check with your doctor. Pilots often take it to help get combat jet lag.

As I understand it, in the US it is available in health food shops, but it in the UK you have to order it online, or get it prescribed by a doctor, as it is considered to be a medicine. It is legal to import it though. I get mine online from Puritan's Pride in the US.

I have tried Melatonin and it helped me get to sleep immediately. The first time I tried it, I was able to get to sleep at a normal time and wake up the next morning feeling fresh and awake, which rarely happens for me. I would like to try a 'slow-release' melatonin. Apparently, the normal melatonin is good for inducing sleep, the slow-release one is good for getting a consistent night's sleep.

I hope this helps.

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I am stunned that there is an actual name for this. My now teenage daughter has had this problem since she was born. Everyone I have taken her to has either made me feel crazy or that I wasn't being strict enough. I have come to feel over the years that she was just trying to be difficult. I have recently found a new neurologist who prescribed elavil for her headaches and meletonin for sleep but he did not mention a word about this disorder and pretty much blamed the concerta for the sleep problem. If anyone could tell me were I could research this more, I would deeply appreciate it.

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