I can definitely relate to Alexandra, Heckelmeister, & ADDWriter's comments, as they mirror my own daughter. My daughter attended a private school of 600 students thru the 8th grade. She now attends a public high school of 2700 students. She has blossomed socially. However, appears to shutdown academicly. She has received so many "tardy" notices for being late to classes, because she's talking to friends, doesn't notice the time, forgets her books, scrambles to class-only to discover she's going the wrong way,...- that she's been serving in-school-suspension (ISS). However, her assignments are being completed, the ISS teacher turns in her assignments, the ISS teacher has her assignments & schedule on the board-which my daughter erases as she completes them. My daughter has made a comment of how organized the teacher is. My daughter has even come home since the beginning of the ISS (10 days) with a brighter affect. She appears more confident when I ask about homework & often refers to the work that her & the ISS teacher did at school. I commented today that it's like having her own private school-she smiled & said, Yes, it is. Coincidently, I commented to her Assistant Principal that I suspected that her work would improve throughout this punishment phase and not really "deter or correct" the problem of being tardy to classes, and it would probably emphasis how a smaller environment with less distractions & pressure may be more of what she really needed to be academicly successful. I had suggested the possibility of having a "student assistance center" for 504 students where they could go when they were becoming overwhelmed, needed reteaching, or a less distracting environment throughout the day to complete their work. It's similar to CMC (Content Mastery Class) where Special Ed. students can go for extra time, reteaching, etc. A "student assistance center would parallel the CMC class, but it wouldn't be federally funded. Only special ed. students can go to CMC because of funding. The assistant principal copied me on an email that she sent to 3 of ther colleagues to discuss the possibilities of a student assistance center. We'll see what comes of the idea.

I've struggled with how much of this is ADD vs being a teenager, (refusing help from Mom, lying about homework, unmotivated to do anything that's not considered "fun"). I have considered an evaluation for depression as well, but hadn't considered anxiety, too. I'm in the process of scheduling an evaluation anyway & will mention or question that possibility to the evaluator.

I really hate to hear of everyone's struggles. It's so painful to read as I can relate so much to how helpless parents feel at times. I recognize how emotionally deflating all this is for me. And yet, if it affects me in this way, I try to imagine what it's like for my daughter and how much she must struggle with her own internal chaos. But I am glad that I'm not the only one struggling here. It helps hearing from others what they've tried. I have even been trying to find an ADD teen support group for my daughter so she could talk with other teenagers who are trying to deal with the same issues. (Still looking,haven't found one in my area.)

Thanks to all for your support, encouragement, and your words of wisdom.

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Boy, is this thread familiar - we moved our son to a private high school so he'd be in a Freshman class of 95 instead of 1,000. He chose to go, so we didn't force him. He tested high enough to place in AP Geometry, which killed him as a frosh - his teacher was ADD, a rigid disciplinarian, and she didn't believe he belonged in her class. They clashed, we clashed with her even more. In retrospect, keeping him in AP Geometry was probably a mistake. But he also had issues with English even though he reads >>voraciously<<. We tried lots of things, but Algebra issues were largely her rigid and senseless rules clashing with his difficulty following step-by-step procedures. He does a lot of work in his head (correctly), but she would mark it wrong because it wasn't done her way, and he would sometimes forget a step and actually get it wrong. In English, if he didn't like what he was reading, he did poorly. We're talking about a kid who scored in the 95th percentile on his PSATs in English and Math (yes math), and 85th in writing - it just doesn't add up to his poor grades in Math and English. We tried taking away some of his things, he turned it into a war. We took his iPod and told him he could have it back when things improved. That hurt, and it worked a little, but he soon found other diversions. Finally, exasperated at his lack of effort, we warned him mid-year that we'd pull him from the (very expensive) private school if he didn't do better, but he knew we would not sent him back to public school, so he called our bluff.

Sophomore year we took a harder line - a neighbor had home-schooled a daughter, and we took our queue from her. We eventually got to the point where we gave him an ultimatum - "Pull your grades up, or we'll home school you!" The thought of being home-schooled by his mother put the fear of God in him. Effort improved - we always explained that if C's were teh best he could do, that's OK but he's capable of A's. Long story short - English is much better this year, but math (normal Algebra, not AP) is still a huge issue. But we aren't punishing him for the Algebra grade, because he is now legitimately trying - much harder than in times past.

My underlying point is - our kids learn differently, and we have to account for that in the way we teach them, not expect too much, be careful of depression and other underlying issues. BUT - don't forget this important point - they are kids who must try hard like everyone else, and must learn there are consequences to not trying hard enough. Don't be afraid to take away something they really want - if lack of effort is readily apparent. (pun not intended - a parent). Don't create a war, set the ground rules and consequences clearly. Permit them to meet / fail to meet expectations and follow through with the consequences. It should fix the effort part of the problem, but it won't change their learning issues, so don't take it too far.

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The school counselor is nice, but uselss, the teachers are nice, supportive, but 15 nearly 16 year old son is very unmotivated in a few classes and totally dismisses doing the work in others. I believe he needs a IEP now that I read what was posted here regards age. He is on new meds once again, ok for now, cymbalta and concerta, he has a new add coach (phd) he wil be seeing again next week. The 4th quarter is near here and the only other possibility is a home type charter school. The bottom line, he is so unmotivated toward traditional schooling, has a fine IQ, doesnt feel the paperwork is necessary and is at the school on a zone waiver. Any ideas? I do plan not to give up at this point, third quarter, yes he is failing, but I feel the school is failing him, Its stressful on our family, our marriage and sister a grade below him. Thanks for listening, its just tough, My husband thinks the 504 is a wash, I agree, but want to take it to the grindstone one more time. I think the socialization is great for him, I believe one day, intuitively, it will all click and he will get it. We are continuing with his evaluation for a learning disability, but are trying not to make him the learning disabled child if you know what I mean. He does have organizational challenges, loses papers, We did the organizational coach bit a few years ago, hot/cold folders, He took it as a game, played it for a while, got the rewards and then, spft! I dont want to see him fail, there is no reason to have him 'fail' but options are running slim at this time and I feel like public school system with his other gifted freinds nearbye wil keep him on a fairly good path.

Thanks for listening, its so tough, if he fails this quarter, he will find no reason to attend school, he is such a good kid, but just isnt tuned into really accepting that he has add and a short term memory issue.

A concerned mom thats not giving up and letting her son fail, thats me!

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Most of your kids sound exactly like me. For a second I thought some of you were my mom, just using pseudonyms. I'm 17 and having major academic problems. I always follow the rules and am polite and respectful and all, but high school's killing my spirit and I feel completely incompetent. I go to a private school and every year of high school so far has been worse than the last. I've had to give up the activities I love because I'm so bad with managing my time, and it hasn't even helped. No matter how little work I have, it seems like it's always too much. When I have lots of details to remember or small assignments to do, I completely shut down.

I'm taking AP English and the teacher doesn't believe in learning disabilities. She's a really wonderful teacher and I love her, but she embarrasses me in front of the class a lot. Whenever I forget a book or am unclear about a deadline. It's awful. And she told two of my friends if I didn't get my act together she would kick me out of AP. Anxiety builds to the point where I feel like I can't go into school if my work's unfinished or I'm unprepared for a test. Consequently, I miss an inordinate amount of class and the teachers get all pissy and malicious. I really care about my grades, which is the worst part. I know I should be getting A's and I held it together the first trimester and got straight A's, but it's been downhill ever since. All I can think about while I'm in school is how much I hate school. Every day's another reminder that I'm someplace I don't belong in an environment where I can't thrive.

You know what makes me maddest? I don't think anything's wrong with me. I function differently from most people, why does that have to mean I function wrong? The way I see it, learning disabilities aren't excuses for students, they're excuses for the school system. "Oh, no, we're not marginalizing everyone who doesn't function well within our narrow narrow boundaries. It's not that our system's flawed, those students just have a flaw in their brain chemistry." I'm tired of people losing patience and I'm tired of letting everyone down (most of all, myself) and I'm tired of being frustrated and I'm tired of having no time to do the things that keep life from becoming dull and icky and I'm tired of being called lazy and flaky and I'm tired of being made to feel like I can't succeed anywhere just because I can't succeed in high school and I'm tired of feeling discouraged. Most of all, I'm tired of caring.

For about a month, my parents were showing me unconditional support and it made my whole life so much more bearable. For the first time, I thought maybe they could accept me even though I'm a failure. Then they got frustrated and withdrew a lot of their support. As a result, I feel hopeless and alienated and I'm really really sick of this homogenization factory called high school.

I also hate Adderall because I can't function without it and I don't like the idea of being dependent.

I don't like being this bitter and feeling like everything exists to make me fail. I know that's not true. I want to be rainbows and sunshine and kittens and flowers. But it's difficult to be kittens and flowers in a world of vampires and goblins and arsenic-coated lollipops.

Anyway, parents, I can't stress enough how important your unconditional support is. Your children are frustrated enough with themselves. And teachers don't tend to be the most understanding. High school is a flaming hoop we all have to jump through. All you can do is limit the flammability of your child's clothing and keep a fire extinguisher nearby. It's a flame-covered hoop for every student, but AD/HD students tend to trip on it a lot more than the average student. Even if you don't see improvements when you offer your support, trust me, you're helping. Even if you're not helping your child improve her academic performance, you're helping her understand that you can accept, love, and believe in her even when there's no reason why you should. It's called faith, parents, and it's very very important to the struggling teen. High school will torture your child, but you can keep it from killing her spirit. Sorry for talking. hugs, Jill

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Thank you, I am a parent and you have opened my eyes to what my teen daughter is feeling. I think your parents should be every proud of you. Your writing is beautiful. You need to do some thing with your writing. My daughter has had a hard time in high schooL . She just turned 18. You have made me what to get a support group for teens. My daughter thinks i am nuts. But i think it could help kids. She ADHD. What do you think about a support group? She has been going down some bad roads. Are you on the 504 in school. You sound so conident. My doughter is every creative. If she could only see it. I am going to have my daugther read this. We will get back to you. Take care of your self. Be open to your parents. If i could only write like you i could do any thing. Bye for now. Inga

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You have no idea how happy I am that someone read what I said and took it to heart. I've been feeling really helpless in terms of making people understand how difficult it is to survive in the narrow high school world with a learning disability. I go to a private school, so they're pretty much exempt from, well, everything...including the whole 504 deal.

I think a support group is an amazing idea. I've been wanting to do something like that, but I just don't have the resources. I really think it'd be fantastic if you could get people interested and listening. I'd kill for a support group right now. You're wonderful for caring so much and wanting to understand what your daughter is going through. She's very lucky to have you...even if she thinks you're crazy. hugs, Jill p.s. Thank you so much for praising my writing. I love words more than anything except my cats.

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Jill, you have made my day. I don't have much time to write you to night. AMERICAN IDOL is no.I love that show.I have to tell you your parents have done a good job by putting you in that school . It shows it by your words in your writing. Your teacher knows you can do it. Be proud of your self . It will pay off. Well i have to go. I wIll get back to you. Hugs Inga P.S Keep your head up and walk tall.

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My son is in trouble with his 8th Language Arts teacher because he took so many shortcuts on his research paper he has basically plagiarized. He just wanted to get it done and over with and wasn't motivated at all to put in the kind of time he would have needed to demonstrate mastery of the process. I probably nagged too much and the teacher thinks I did too much for him.

My question is this, how do you as parents determine how much help to give? Do I leave him completely alone so he flunks when he is struggling in every other class? If a person fails enough they will decide to stop working, it is inevitable. This is doubly hard because he is very intelligent in ways that don't count at school. Everyday when I drop my son off to middle school I wonder, "How does he do it?" I know that for the first 4 periods of the day he is in survival mode. Motivated to do homework? No way. In trouble with his teachers? You bet. Why won't anybody at school help this kid succeed?

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I think we can do enough without actually doing it. For my child., I will help her find things on line; or if I had the subject give her the resource material so she can find what she needs. I will review it and correct her so if it is to much then I do too much. I will have her read it out loud and make the tense corrections as it is being read. If it sounds too perfect then I am not too sure what can be done. for example she had an essay on the 1300 and what supured on the colonization . it wasn't in her book but easily accessed on-line that the plaque supported the colonization. To keep her motivated we give her cash for 90 and above 90-94 $1 95-98 $ 2 99-100 $3 A's on report card are 5 etc we know she loves cash and will do her best if she thinks she is going to get paid. I never tought about the fact we could be accused of doing it for her. Thank you for the heads up . Also remember to get arround the issue of plagism he need to reference his sources. an example is from a paper in nursing ? , Melinda Smith, M.A., Tina de Benedictis, Ph.D., Jaelline Jaffe, Ph.D., and

Jeanne Segal, Ph.D., (8/20/07). Domestic Violence and Abuse: Warning Signs and Symptoms of Abusive Relationships, retrieved 08/24/2007 from http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm

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My son is 14 years old and I am a single parent trying to motivate him. I suffer from ADD too so I know how he feels. When you were writing about your daughter it made me really think about some questions to ask my son. I want more for him than I got when I was in High School. His father is in his life, but doesn't buy this whole ADD thing and isn't happy about meds, and I don't care what he thinks because it is all about helping my son. Did you ever have problems with having your daughter say I don't care out of anger or sadness? My son says it all the time and it concerns me so much. If you have any thoughts on that I would appreciate it. Thanks again you give me hope that my son can get this and go on to college too. Wow.........thanks again.

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heckelmeister said: You are describing what happened with my daughter in high school (she just graduated last June). Your description of her "just shutting down" is absolutely accurate because that's literally what's happening. We thought originally that it was a motivational thing, but what it turned out to be was extreme anxiety that eventually led to depression. Starting her on Cymbalta made a big difference, but that didn't take care of everything.

For my daughter, ADD means not only that her mind goes a mile a minute, leading to distractability, but also that once her interest is piqued, she will hyperfocus to the exclusion of all else. Combine that with the high school experience, where kids must take six and seven courses every day. Not only is she dealing with the distractability, not to mention great problems transitioning from one class and subject to another in the space of less than ten minutes, but they're also expecting her to manage several projects and homework assignments in many subjects every day. No wonder she became anxious to the point of paralysis!

If this sounds like what's happening with your daughter, here's one solution for math: find the best tutor you can who can literally be her teacher, i.e., not just someone to help with homework, but someone who will assume she has absorbed nothing in the classroom and so will reteach it anew at every meeting. We learned a long time ago that our daughter learns best in one-on-one situations--fewer distractability problems that way. Doing this, she went from a D in Algebra II to a B, an F in Statistics to a C. The teachers, by the way, would cut her no slack on the amount of homework and papers she had to turn in (despite a 504 plan to the contrary), so these grades reflect the same amount of work everyone else did. In fact, because of her anxiety and depression, we convinced the school that it was detrimental for her to even attend class (it didn't help that the teacher thought it would be "motivational" to remind her she was failing). They vetted the tutor and agreed to accept him as her de facto teacher. Not having to attend the class helped tremendously with the anxiety. What's the best tutor? Someone not intimidating to your daughter, but definitely not another high school student (we found a graduate student in math at our local university). By the way, the tutor turned in her homework for her, so the usual problem of forgetting to turn things in magically disappeared. :)

As for papers and projects, we found that her tendency to perfectionism led to her staring at the computer screen for hours trying to perfect three sentences, but if she dictated what she wanted to say, she could knock out a paper in a day. Dictating to me worked freshman year, but after that she didn't want to have to work with Mom. So we convinced her to hook up with a friend of hers who was attending the local university. My daughter would dictate, her friend would key in, then when my daughter would want to hyperfocus on a sentence or a paragraph, her friend would tell her it was good enough and get her to move on. It made writing a fun social experience, which in turn seemed to dissipate the paralyzing dread that used to accompany such assignments.

As for the usual motivational techniques of taking away car keys and privileges, it's not going to work because this is not a problem of motivation. Believe me, the desire is there, but it's like there's a brick wall preventing her from doing what she really does want to do, and at least for my daughter, that made her feel even more helpless and hopeless. Working with a very sympathetic principal, we learned in her junior year that our daughter didn't need to take a full load every semester in order to graduate. She helped pare down our daughter's schedule from seven courses every day to four. That also helped tremendously.

There's no way to sugar-coat this--high school is going to be a really rough ride for you and your daughter. All I can say is that it really is true that college is a whole lot better (at least so far) because it's not seven courses every day all week long.

Good luck.

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I too need help motivating my teen. He was once on Strattera and Zoloft and did fairly well but quit taking those. He didn't "like the way he felt and was tired of taking meds." His grades can go up and down at any given time but now they are in the toilet. He doesn't care and doesn't get the information straight to do it right. He doesn't want any suggestions or help. He excels in sports and we were hoping that would be motivation but he seems to think that D's are ok and they are not failing. It is a fine line when you take everything away also. He will then just go into a depression and give up. I have tried counseling but he had a bad experience and refuses to go back. He is basically a great kid but we are at a loss on what to do. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

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I have an almost-16-yr-old son who continues to fail classes due to failure to turn in work or apply himself. He began his inattentiveness and focusing problems in 4th grade. I can't say I have a lot of help or advice for anyone else because we have now been dealing with his problems and he just finished his Sophomore year in high school. He is very bright, smart, and loving kid who doesn't skip school, is not a behavior problem and just goes by under the radar and has for a long time. He is active in our church and is a Life Scout in Boy Scouts, on his way to Eagle Scout, and he is highly praised for his continuing efforts in scouting by the staff who admire and think very highly of him which makes us very proud.

I feel like we have been dealing with this part now longer than the time when he was in elementary school. We have the same conversations with him 364 days a year (and all throughout the school year as well). He starts great and sinks midway through the year and then in a desperate attempt, he thinks he is studying and doing his best and he fails over half of his classes. I know his teachers on a first name basis and I am very involved in all three of my kids' schools. I knew it would help to get to know the staff since we are so accustomed to dealing with his academic problems. We've had him privately tested around 6-7th grade and his scores were so high they were off the chart.

Then I began home schooling him for the remainder of 7th grade when the teacher couldn't account for his entire trimester of Language Arts. The students were required to read then produce an indepth book report with over 10 requirements. He read the entire trimester and produced zero reports. But because he wasn't a behavior problem and he was actually reading, she didn't notice. I continued to home school him and then we moved and we felt it would be best to get him into the neighborhood school for 8th grade so he could make new friends. We had him evaluated for ADD ADHD having the outcome "undetermined" and then a second opinion and they wanted to mediate him which we did around 8th grade but it really made no difference. They increased the amount and even changed the meds and still no improvement. One time while being evaluated, the clinician said he was "great to have in the group evaluation and he even helped administer the testing to the other kids who were involved. At different times, we have taken away everything from cell phone (which he's only had since high school) to his entire room (seriously the whole room except the bed!) We even had to take away reading - which is really one of his great passions and that really made me cry.

My husband and I just can't figure out what his "button" is. I feel that we have exhausted every possible option. One last thing we are currently considering is having a friend employ him to go menial labor grunt work for the summer in hopes of him realizing that getting his education will keep him from having to "settle" for a hard labor job. When you know that your child is more than capable and chooses not to perform in school, but because he is such a great guy and is not a delinquent it makes it very difficult to just sit around and hope for the best for his future. We have told him that doors are closing all around him and he doesn't even know it (the doors that could possibly lead to a successful future). Choices are being made and he doesn't even realize it. We have two girls 12 and 9 and I stayed home with them and they have a solid family life so please don't try to tell me that those things have any bearing on this. He is basically extremely lazy and it spreads throughout his life. Any tasks given at home rarely are completed with any accuracy and the frustration just mounts. He realizes this too and he just makes more excuses for his inability to complete the most basic of tasks. Of course when he knows that we are frustrated he jumps to attention and is willing to try at home but he keeps us snowed most of the year and even with the tools provided on the computer from the school dist. He doesn't follow up on missing assignments even though he says he will. This past semester he spent the last few months telling us the teacher had his assignment and she just hasn't had a chance to enter the grade when in reality she never received it and when she said she would accept it late, it never materialized. So here we are again 364 days later and it just keeps going round and round. Does anyone out there have any advice???????? This is definitely not the part I remember bargaining for when we decided to start our family, yeah I know the good with the bad and I realize that we don't really have it that bad, but believe me in our house the level of apathy is so distracting that I can hardly deal with all of the issues that come up with my other two kids. They are really the ones that lose out in this deal because of no fault of their own, they are missing out on time with me, their mom, and I desperately can't find a solution. I often tell my kids to stop focusing on the problem and start focusing on the solution and now I find that I can't even take my own advice. I feel that we have tried everything short of shock therapy! Signed, Beyond frustrated :( I see that these posts are from 1/08. I hope someone is still reading these.

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